Looking Back

Orange County enjoys a storied tradition in high school athletics, from Mickey Flynn to DeShaun Foster, Ann Meyers to Nicole Erickson. And there are a handful of coaches who have been around long enough to watch those legends unfold.

The Times brought together some veteran county coaches and former athletes to talk about the changes they have seen through the years.

Newport Harbor water polo Coach Bill Barnett, former Fountain Valley volleyball Coach Lori Biller, Laguna Hills Athletic Director Dave Brown, Mater Dei girls’ Athletic Director Geri Campeau and former Orange football Coach Dick Hill joined Times staff writers Martin Henderson and Dave McKibben and correspondent Michael Itagaki recently for that discussion.

Here’s what they told us:

* Recruiting is a part of high school athletics.

* Winning isn’t everything. But instilling the desire to win might be.

* The system has changed, not the kids.

Meet the ‘90s Coach / Counselor / Fund-Raiser . . .

Brown: In my 30 years of coaching, the most pleasant thing is still the kids between the lines. People will ask me, “Are the kids as dedicated today as they were then?” My answer is yes, year in and year out, the kids will work just as hard and will want to compete just as much. I love the kids as much now as I did then.

So what has changed?

Brown: When I started coaching at Fountain Valley, [the school administration] said, “What do you want? We’ll buy it.” We didn’t have to raise a nickel. Now, it’s to the point where you have money to buy the balls. Everything else, you better go find out how you’re going to get it. That also gives parents more leverage because they’re so much more involved in the money raising.

Coaching takes a toll on your personal life. For example, it can’t be a whole lot of fun to have your wife sitting in the stands and have parents yelling about what an idiot you are.

Biller: I can’t believe how abusive some parents are to the coaches, the players on the bench, the referees. I hate going to basketball games because it’s not enjoyable to sit in the stands.

Brown: Another trend is some kids are not as willing to sit on the bench. When they see they’re not in the rotation, they’re either going to transfer, quit or become very malcontent.

Campeau: That goes back to what you said originally in that the parents are more involved now. The kids go home and they’re getting it fed from mom and dad.

Brown: The parents lose their status in the stands when their kid is not getting to play . . . Coaches have to try and deal with these pressures, expectations, demands and still keep balance in their life--spiritually, emotionally and physically.

Hill: And keeping your eyes fixed on the right priorities. But keeping those priorities straight is a hard thing.

Campeau: Because of the nature of athletics today, becoming a year-round thing, one of the things many people don’t consider is that, for instance, I’m with my kids all year. We just had our senior night recently and I sat down with the team. I wrote some notes down about what we went through as a group in those four years. In the course of four years, we went through death, we went through a birth [Campeau’s sister, Mary, who was Mater Dei’s former coach, had a baby], we had been through abuse issues, we had seen eating disorders. As a team, we’ve had to deal with a lot of that stuff.

That’s not an easy position to be in as a coach, because you don’t always know the right thing to do. They’re with me more than they are at home with their mom and dad. That’s reality. So in a lot of ways, you’re kind of a parent figure to them.

Biller: It goes back to the time coaches are spending with their athletes now. Fifteen-20 years ago, you had 2- 2 1/2-hour practices. Now, everyone is in a sixth-period P.E. class, your entire team, year-round. If you’re going to compete, you’re practicing four to five hours.

But across the board, coaches are much better now than they were 20 years ago. I just remember as an athlete back then, coaches were just P.E. teachers that really didn’t know the sport. Now you’re seeing coaches that have coached club, that have a lot of experience, that are players. The coaching is great.

And the Payoff for Coaching Is . . .

So if you don’t get rich coaching, you can’t be fulfilled by simply winning championships and there are so many problems to deal with, why keep coaching?

Barnett: It keeps you young . . .

Biller: But it can make you grow old faster too. You can’t do it for money and you can’t do it unless you really, really love it, otherwise that comes across to your athletes. And I think that makes the difference between the great coaches and the not-so-great coaches.

Barnett: I just enjoy coaching. I like the kids and I like to win. I don’t know what I’ll do with myself when I retire because I love coaching that much.

Hill: I think I have a lot to offer. The win? Man, we’ve got to continue to strive for that, that’s what life is all about. We want to be the best that we can. And we want to have that excitement. I hate people that don’t have excitement to offer and kids turn off from guys who aren’t excited and excited about something. When I quit getting excited about what I do, then I will get out of coaching.

Biller: Do you think coaches are more lenient than they were 20 years ago?

I’m very strict, and I’ve told my players that it’s either my way or the highway. [The Fountain Valley administration] took a chance and said let’s try it with a volleyball program that was nothing, and it worked out. But I’ve seen a lot of people try to do that and the administration won’t let them do it, or parents say, “We don’t like this.”

Hill: It’s a great accomplishment to bring kids up to higher standards. It’s too bad we don’t do that more often.

If you work with kids with problems, you will have more problems and many of them will make you look like a failure.

[On the other hand] if you have a good disciplinary program, you will come off smelling like roses in the long run, but you will limit the number of athletes participating because they don’t come up to the qualifications that you have.

Public vs. Private: If You Can’t Join Them, Change the System

Brown: A huge problem is [the competitive equity issue] and it has to be solved right now. You have the Sunset League saying they’re going to go independent if you put Mater Dei in their league. The Sea View League principals are thinking about the same thing with Santa Margarita. It’s almost gotten to anarchy. That’s the No. 1 problem in the county right now, and that’s been the biggest change in my 30 years of coaching.

Hill: I don’t think any parochial school should ever compete in lower [Southern Section division] levels. Mater Dei boys’ basketball for instance, they’re a little down this year yet they won the league championship [Note: Mater Dei shared the title with Capistrano Valley]. I’ve envied for years the coaches at a school like Mater Dei or any of the parochial schools that have that clientele that are willing to pay $4,000 [tuition] to have success for their kids.

Is there active recruiting going on?

Brown: I think there is recruiting among the parents more than anything else. I do not think at this point, [Mater Dei boys’ basketball Coach] Gary McKnight goes out and recruits. But for instance, in South Orange County, with Santa Margarita, it’s a tremendous status symbol to go there, and I think the parents feel that pressure. I think parents recruit parents.

Hill: And it can happen at a public school too. You have two public schools that have that situation right now: Los Alamitos and Brea Olinda. I don’t think the coaches are recruiting, but they offer definite opportunities. Successful programs that are well-publicized have an advantage in the recruiting system, and the coaches are not the ones that are doing the recruiting.

Public vs. Private Part II: Winning Isn’t Everything

Hill: Although we did not have a winning season at Orange last year, no one actually understands that a losing coach can do a great job. I tell the guys that we are not losers when we lose if we have the desire to win and are willing to pay the price that it takes to win.

I feel that the winning is not the part of the program, it’s the achievement of the desiring to win and playing your best. Then you never become a loser. Now that’s trite in our society, but it’s not in mine.

So you don’t equate success with victories?

Hill: Not even close.

Barnett: It’s the preparation, the hard work that goes in. . . . I don’t measure my success with wins and losses, I measure my success with how hard the kids work and how much they enjoy the program.

The kids have a real problem in looking beyond high school and college in, “What am I going to need to be successful in life?” It’s what you can get in athletics. It’s the hard work, the preparation. All the kids who come back to me and say, “One thing I learned from your program is how to work hard. And you can’t believe how much it’s helped in my profession.”

But if effort and what you learn from competition is what’s important, why eliminate the toughest competition and remove the private/parochial schools from the public system?

Barnett: You always like to feel you are competing on an equitable basis. But for example, in our league, Santa Margarita has the choice of every Catholic athlete in the South County . . . it doesn’t bother me that they’re in the league, but I don’t think it’s fair or equitable.

Hill: A situation like that can put my kids in a second-place position to begin with. The parochial schools can go out and get the superior athletes. Now it’s true that if you compete and you have the desire to win, you’re never a loser. But why should you ever put your family in a lower position than your neighbors?

Biller: But if you make your family believe they’re not in a lower position . . .

Hill: That’s pretty hard to do when they beat your team year after year.

Biller: A coach’s job is to make your 5-foot-8 athlete believe he is better than the opponent’s 6-4 athlete.

Hill: I think that is admirable. But I think the reality of the physiology in athletics, I think we have two strikes against us. And you can’t get away from that.

Why give a particular group an advantage over another group? Would you allow some individuals to put you at a disadvantage always in competition and not fight to keep them out of that situation? If so, then I think there’s something wrong with you.

Barnett: At least you’d like to be in the position where once in a while you could win the league title. But knowing that you would never have a chance, that all the hard work . . .

Biller: Winning is very important, but you don’t sacrifice your morals, your values, the kids having fun, for it. When kids came into my program, they know I want to win, but they also know they’re going to have a great time.

The Effects of Club Sports

Biller: The club programs are huge now in all sports. So now some parents think, “Well, I’ve gone to all these club games and I know what’s going on. My daughter Sally plays for her club team, why isn’t she starting on her high school team?”

Hill: And those parents have paid a fortune for several years to get that training at the club.

Biller: And now they want Sally to play for the best team that she can in high school so the colleges will see that. But you know, college coaches don’t even look at the high schools anymore, they go to the clubs.

Campeau: They still do in basketball, but in volleyball, not as much. In softball or soccer, the college coaches don’t look at high schools at all.

Brown: I’d say 90% of the basketball recruiting is actually done in the seventh and eighth grades, even sixth grade. It’s all the traveling teams. [The college recruiters] will still talk to the high school coach, but because of the time constraints the NCAA has, almost all the recruiting is done out of the club/traveling teams.

Hill: In some sports, club poses a different problem. For instance, a club will grab hold of a soccer player or a basketball player, and those are great sports for young kids to play. Yet, to get those kids involved in other sports . . . there are so many kids that are wasted.

Campeau: Everything is specialized now. The kids have been fed that they have to play one sport year-round or they’re never going to reach their potential.

Brown: And that’s when the disenchantment starts to happen. When the kids are juniors or seniors, and the parents finally realize, “Wait a minute, my kid is not going to play for UCLA.” When they finally realize they were being led on by the clubs all these years.

Campeau: I think the high school coaches are more honest with their kids than the club coaches. Clubs want the parents’ money, so they’ll tell you what you want to hear.

Biller: One of the factors that brought my parents down to Orange County from Paso Robles was the fact that there was better coaching, better competition down here in the club programs. My husband and I want to move away from Orange County to get back to the small town environment, lakes, trees and grass and seasons . . .

I know my kids will probably be athletic but we’re not going to push them into that. I think we can still be sure that my children will get good opportunities to pursue college athletic scholarships in a small town, I don’t think you need to live in Orange County to do that. My parents thought that they needed to do that, but that was in 1979.

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The Participants

Bill Barnett Newport Harbor

Barnett is in his 32nd year at Newport Harbor High, where he coaches the boys’ and girls’ water polo teams. His boys’ teams won 10 Southern Section championships from 1967 to 1984. The girls won the Sea View League title this season and play Los Alamitos in the second round of the Division I playoffs today.

He also coached the U.S. national teams for the 1988 and ’92 Olympics. The U.S. won a silver medal in Seoul ’88 and finished fourth in Barcelona ’92.

Lori Biller Fountain Valley

Biller recently resigned as the Barons’ volleyball coach because she and her family plan to move back East this spring.

Biller led the Barons to the school’s first Southern Section volleyball title, a Division I-A championship in 1996, and coached the boys’ and girls’ teams for four years.

As a player, when she was Lori Zeno, she earned Division 3-A girls’ volleyball player of the year honors at La Quinta in 1981 and ’82. She was an All-American selection at UCLA and also played on the Women’s Professional Volleyball Assn. beach tour.

Dave Brown Laguna Hills

Brown is in his ninth year coaching boys’ basketball at Laguna Hills, where he also is the boys’ athletic director.

He spent 21 years as the boys’ basketball coach at Fountain Valley, where his teams won seven Sunset League titles. He won his first league title at Laguna Hills this season, finishing 21-6. Laguna Hills lost to Troy in the first round of the Division II-A playoffs Friday.

Geri Campeau Mater Dei

Campeau, the girls’ athletic director, is in her first full season as the girls’ basketball coach after spending four seasons as an assistant to her sister, Mary Hauser.

The Monarchs advanced to the second-round of the Division I-A playoffs and meet top-seeded Cerritos Wednesday.

Campeau was a standout guard at Mater Dei when she was Geri Gainey. She was a two-time Angelus League MVP before she moved on to play basketball at Fresno State.

Dick Hill Orange

Hill is the county’s all-time winningest high school football coach, compiling a record of 212-111-14 at Santa Ana Valley, Santa Ana and Orange. He retired at the end of last season.

His career mark is 224-112-4, which includes his first season at Downey in 1956, when he won his first of three Southern Section titles.

He recently took a job as an assistant coach at Santiago under Coach Ben Haley, whose father was an assistant under Hill at Santa Ana Valley.