Debate Fervent in O.C. on Gay-Military Issue

Alexander Sandoval sees some irony in the fact he had to conceal his homosexuality to serve in the U.S. Navy.

“The whole point of the service to me when I was 18 years old and went in was that I wanted to fight for my country, for the freedom to live as equal men,” said Sandoval, a 42-year-old Dana Point resident who served four years as a medic.

Others say allowing openly gay people in the military means that homosexuals would get special privileges not available to heterosexual soldiers.

“I think my rights need to be respected,” said Capt. Mark Godina, an ROTC instructor and assistant professor of military science at Cal State Fullerton. “I will feel uncomfortable knowing there’s a known homosexual standing next to me in the shower. I will feel he’s looking at me. Homosexuals say it’s not a problem, I can control myself. Well, give me the same right, as a heterosexual. Let me take a shower with the gender I’m attracted to. I can control myself.”

From Capitol Hill to Orange County, the issue is generating fervent discussions and much emotion. A national poll by The Times showed that Americans split almost evenly on the matter, with 45% in favor of letting openly gay people in the military and 47% against.

Orange County residents are divided as well. Their positions, and their reasons, are as diverse as their backgrounds.

Among those interviewed this week who favor allowing openly gay people into the military is a woman whose husband and two sons served in the Navy, a heterosexual Army specialist, a Mexican-American whose son is homosexual, and a gay Republican. Those opposed include a couple of retired generals, an ex-Navy doctor and a Marine officer who has spent his adult life in the corps.

Gay veterans such as Sandoval say that lifting the ban on homosexuals is a logical step following the integration of race and gender.

But those who support the ban say that allowing gays to serve openly will undermine morale, increase gay bashing, and tarnish the “officer and gentleman” image of the military. They say that gay activists then will demand same-sex marriages and base housing.

Some are glad that the topic is being talked about openly.

“I’m very excited that for once in my adult life we are discussing this issue, which needs to be discussed,” said Robert F. Gentry, a Laguna Beach city councilman who is gay.

Others are puzzled by the heat of the controversy.

“It just bewilders me that people seem to feel that this is a new issue, gays being in the military,” said Joseph White, who served in the Army from 1964 to 1966. “Most of these people who are worried were probably in the service, standing next to someone gay in the shower or sleeping next to them in a cot. Gays have been operating and functioning in the military forever. It isn’t something that just arrived.”

Gay veterans recalled their fear of being “found out” while in uniform.

Jerry Hankins, 55, recalled sitting in a barracks shortly before leaving the Air Force on a medical discharge in 1962 and having the sergeant in charge walk around, pointing at each person and saying, “Are you a faggot, are you one of them?”

Angie Madsen, 32, a disabled Marine Corps veteran, said that superior officers harassed her because of her sexual orientation while she was in the service and that she is denied certain benefits because officials know she is a lesbian.

“Things just don’t jibe,” Madsen said. “The American dream and the American way and the freedom and the Constitution of the United States of America and the armed services is based on a person’s willingness to defend our country and our beliefs and our freedom, and then in the military they’re turning around and stepping on us.”

Some heterosexuals also favor letting openly gay people in the military.

Marilyn Hahn, a Yorba Linda resident whose husband and two sons served in the Navy, said the ban should be lifted to acknowledge what already exists inside the armed forces.

“These people are already functioning in the military and doing a good job, as they do in every other facet of life,” said Hahn, 52. “It’s already a fact, and I think we need to legitimize it. People need to think more in terms of our sameness not in terms of our differences.”

Elena Layland, a second-generation Mexican-American who has a gay son, predicted that lifting the ban won’t disrupt much.

“People are not going to come out in droves,” she said. “They are too careful. . . . They are going to wait and bide their time. They’ve been in the military for so long and they are careful.”

Most people interviewed agreed that President Clinton blundered when he brought up the issue so early in his Administration and that he bruised the egos of some legislators on Capitol Hill.

Nona Gibbs, a Dana Point resident who volunteers in several civic groups, said that lifting the ban is “inevitable” but that Clinton should slow down rather than rush it through.

“I don’t believe in discrimination of any kind, but that rule in the military is there for a reason. I’m sure it was put there with a great deal of thought, and I think it’s going to need a great deal of thought to change it,” she said.

Gay veterans discounted the fear that lifting the ban would mean rampant gay sex in the barracks. They predict that most will keep their sexual orientation a secret for fear of gay bashing.

And besides, they said, being gay should not affect one’s performance. It’s a matter of conducting oneself properly, and that has nothing to do with sexual orientation, they said.

If anything, Madsen said, gays and lesbians are experts at keeping their sexuality to themselves.

“We are so well-conditioned, it’s a learned thing,” she said. “There’s a really fine attribute in the gay and lesbian community that enables a gay and lesbian worker to separate their personal life from their professional life.”

Some liken the issue to President Harry S. Truman’s integration of blacks into the armed forces.

While noting that Gen. Colin L. Powell is doing what he thinks best for the military, Jim Woodward, a former Navy flight officer who is gay, compares the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the “redneck military officers” who in 1948 opposed with the same vehemence the integration of blacks into the armed forces.

“They were prejudiced then,” Woodward said. “He is prejudiced now.”

Marine 1st Lt. Aaron Potter disagreed.

“I find it insulting when somebody tries to compare homosexuals to being black,” said Potter, who is African-American.

Potter, who has spent 16 of his 33 years in the Marine Corps, said the military is no place for gays.

“Allowing two homosexuals to slow dance in the officers’ club, that’s not the Marine Corps I joined. . . . I feel like somebody’s immorality is being forced upon me,” Potter said.

Retired Brig. Gen. William A. (Art) Bloomer, former Marine assistant commandant, said the military is not similar to civilian life. It has different rules and regulations and openly gay people don’t belong in uniform, said Bloomer, who is now an Irvine city councilman.

Retired Marine four-star Gen. J.K. Davis said combat would present problems for gays and lesbians. The threat of AIDS would be higher, he said.

“How would you like to be shot for your country and get blood from one of these birds that turned out to be HIV-positive?” Davis asked. “If one of them gets injured, do you think one of the corpsmen would want to go over there and tuck his gut back in? There is no glove out there in the battlefield, you know.”

Some cited religious reasons for keeping gays out of the military.

“The Book of Romans, Chapter 1, talks about this explicitly,” said James Shepherd, a 45-year-old Army reservist who works as an Orange County Transportation Authority bus driver. “It says, ‘No way, Jose.’ ”

Dr. Edward H. Bestard, who served as a Navy doctor, has treated many gay patients, he said. But the San Clemente physician opposes having gays in uniform.

“I know I’d feel uncomfortable if I were living with one,” he said. “I can’t imagine an openly gay person in the Marines. . . . No matter what rules you lay down, harassment will happen.”

Some heterosexual soldiers, such as Melissa Espina, favor lifting the ban.

The Army specialist, who grew up in the Southland but is now stationed in New Mexico, said that even though she supports Clinton’s efforts, she is afraid of what will happen if homosexuals are openly allowed in the service.

“Unfortunately, you’ve got to understand something about the military: we’re talking about a conservative bunch, I mean big-time conservative,” Espina said. “Nobody likes it (the idea of lifting the ban). . . . (but)I don’t care what people do with themselves.”

Many opponents of lifting the ban believe that the solidarity among troops would be threatened by gays, but Frank Richiazzi, a member of a gay Republican group who saw combat in the Vietnam War in Tay Ninh, said everyone is equal on the front lines.

“I don’t think sexual orientation has anything to do with competency or professionalism,” he said.